His heart blossoming with happiness to hear this very appropriate question, the elderly babaji said, "Baba, I will explain the Dasa-mula to you. You are a pandita. Please carefully understand the truths described in these verses. The first verse is this:

Amnayah praha tattvam/
harimiha paramam/sarvasaktim/rasabdhim/
tadbhinnamsamsca jivan/prakriti kavalitan/
tadvimuktamsca bhavat/
bhedabheda-prakasam sakalamapi hareh/
sadhanam suddha bhaktim/
sadhyam yat pritim/evetyupadisati harau
gauracandram bhajetam

"The Vedas teach that Lord Hari is the Supreme Truth. He has all potencies and He is an ocean of the nectar of transcendental mellows. The individual spirit souls, which are His parts-and-parcels, are divided into groups, some swallowed up by the material energy, and others free from her clutches. Everything that exists is simultaneously one and different from Him. Pure devotional service is the way to attain Lord Hari. The goal of life is to love Him. This Lord Gauracandra personally taught to the living entities."

In the verses that begin here, Sriman Gauracandra teaches ten truths to the faithful souls. Of these the first verse describes the various kinds of evidence, and the remaining nine verses describe various truths learned from these evidences. First the evidence is given, and then the truths that may be learned from that evidence. Evidence is called 'pramana'. The verse I have just recited is an introductory verse that contains a summary of the "Dasa-mula". The verse that follows it is the first verse of the Dasa-mula proper. In verses two through eight the relationship (sambandha) of the souls and the Lord is revealed. In verse nine the activities (abhidheya) of that relationship are described. In verse ten the true need of the living entities (prayojana) is described. The meaning of the introductory, summary verse is this: The word 'amnayah' means 'the statements of the Vedas as they are understood through the disciplic succession." The Vedas, the Srimad Bhagavatam and other Smrti-sastras that follow the Vedas, and the direct perception and other kinds of evidence that support the evidence of scripture are all called 'pramana', or evidence. These evidences support the following definite conclusions: 1. Lord Hari is the Supreme Truth, 2. He has all potencies, 3. He is an ocean of the nectar of transcendental mellows, 4. the two liberated and conditioned souls are His parts-and-parcels, 5. some souls are imprisoned by the material energy, and others free from her clutches, 6. the entire material universe, which contains both matter and spirit, is inconceivably, simultaneously one and different from Him, 7. devotional service is the way to attain Lord Hari, and 8. the goal of life is to love Lord Krishna.

After hearing this summary verse, Vrajanatha said, "O saintly babaji, now is not the time for me to ask any questions. After you recite the first verse I will speak any questions that may arise in my heart. Hearing this, the elderly babaji said, "Good. Good. I will recite the first of these mula verses. Please listen carefully.

"The self-evident Vedas, which by Lord Hari's mercy are obtained from the disciplic succession beginning with the demigod Brahma, and which are accompanied by other sources of evidence, such as direct perception, are the evidence for the following nine truths. Ordinary logic, called 'tarka', has no power to enter a discussion of these truths."

Vrajanatha: Is there any evidence in the Vedas that Brahma taught disciples?

Babaji: Yes. There is. In the Mundaka Upanisad (1.1.1) it is said:

"Brahma, who is the first demigod, the creator of the universe, the protector of the worlds, spoke knowledge of the Supreme, the first of all kinds of knowledge, to his eldest son, Artharva."

There it is also said (Mundaka Upanisad 1.2.13):

"Brahma taught him the science of the eternal Supreme Person."

Vrajanatha: Is there any evidence that when they wrote the Smrti-sastras the sages gave the proper interpretations of the Vedas?

Babaji: In Srimad Bhagavatam, which is the crest jewel of all scriptures, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself explains (11.14.3):

"At the time of cosmic annihilation, the Vedas became lost. At the beginning of the next creation I again taught the Vedas to the demigod Brahma, for the principles of true religion are My very heart. Then Brahma repeated this knowledge to his first son Manu. Then the seven great sages, whose leader is Bhrgu, learned this knowledge from Manu."

Vrajanatha: Why is there a Vaishnava disciplic succession?

Babaji: Misled by impersonalism, many people in the world have left the true path. If the devotees untainted by impersonalism do not have their own disciplic succession, then it will be very difficult to associate with true devotees of the Lord. In the Padma Purana it is written:

"Unless you are initiated by a bona-fide spiritual master in the disciplic succession, the mantra that you might have received is without any effect.* The four Vaishnava disciplic successions, beginning from Laksmi-devi, Brahma, Shiva and Sanaka Kumara, have purified the entire world."

Of all of these, the disciplic succession from Lord Brahma is the oldest. The disciplic succession begins with Brahma and extends even to the present day. The Vedas, Vedangas, Vedanta, and other scriptures have been passed down unchanged from an ancient time, carefully preserved by the disciplic succession. Nothing has been changed or added to the scripture under the care of the disciplic succession. Therefore no one should doubt that the Vedas and other scriptures that are accepted by the bona-fide disciplic succession are authentic. There is a great need for a bona-fide disciplic succession. Therefore from the earliest time the great saints have followed the bona-fide disciplic succession.

Vrajanatha: Are there complete lists of the disciplic successions?

Babaji: The lists contain the names of only the most important acaryas. It is their names that are included in the lists.

Vrajanatha: I wish to hear the list of acaryas in the disciplic succession from Brahman.

Babaji: Here is the list:

"Lord Brahma is the direct disciple of Visnu, the Lord of the spiritual sky. His disciple is Narada, Narada's disciple is Vyasa, and Vyasa's disciples are Sukadeva Gosvami and Madhvacarya. Padmanabha Acarya is the disciple of Madhvacarya, and Narahari is the disciple of Padmanabha Acarya. Madhava is the disciple of Narahari, Aksobhya is the direct disciple of Madhava, and Jayatirtha is the disciple of Aksobhya. Jayatirtha's disciple is Jnanasindhu, and his disciple is Mahanidhi. Vidyanidhi is the disciple of Mahanidhi, and Rajendra is the disciple of Vidyanidhi. Jayadharma is the disciple of Rajendra. Purusottama is the disciple of Jayadharma. Sriman Laksmipati is the disciple of Vyasatirtha, who is the disciple of Purusottama. And Madhavendra Puri is the disciple of Laksmipati."*

Vrajanatha: In this verse it is said that the Vedas are the 'only evidence', and direct perception along with the other sources of evidence, should be accepted only to help in understanding the Vedas. However, nyaya, sankhya and the other philosophies are also sources of evidence. The Puranas, direct perception, inference, comparison, the Vedas, the Vedic histories (Itihasa). Understanding something by its absence (anupalabdhi), circumstantial evidence (arthapatti), and probability (sambhava) are all considered different sources of evidence. Why should it be considered that some kinds of evidence are more valuable than others. If direct perception and inference are not considered sources of evidence, then what kind of knowledge will one be able to get? Please explain this so that I may understand.

Babaji: Direct perception and other sources of evidence like it all depend on the material senses. The material senses of the conditioned soul are subject to four defects: 1. bhrama (mistakes), 2. pramada (illusions), 3. vipralipsa (cheating), and 4. karanapatava (sensory inefficiency). How can one attain true knowledge with such faulty instruments? The Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself appeared in the hearts of the great saints and sages as they were rapt in meditation on Him. The Lord then gave them the perfect knowledge that is the Vedas. Therefore without fear one can accept the Vedas as truth.

Vrajanatha: Please explain these four defects: mistakes, illusions, cheating, and sensory inefficiency.

Babaji: When the imperfect material senses make mistakes in perceiving the world around it, that is called 'bhrama'. Seeing a mirage in the desert is an example of such a mistake. The intelligence of the conditioned souls is limited. Therefore, when such a limited intelligence tries to understand the unlimited Supreme Truth, the limited intelligence is bound to be illusioned in many ways. That is called 'pramada'. An example of this is seen when the material intelligence, limited by time and space, questions how the Supreme Person could have created the material world of time and space. Doubt is called 'vipralipsa'. The material senses are not very efficient tools for acquiring knowledge. When they make mistakes again and again that is called 'karanapatava'.

Vrajanatha: Do not sensory perception and other sources of knowledge have any value at all?

Babaji: Is there a way to understand the material world except with the material senses and other like sources of knowledge? Still, all these sources of knowledge are powerless to understand the spiritual world. For the spiritual world the Vedas are the only source of knowledge. If sense perception and these other sources of evidence confirm the truths revealed in the Vedas, then the knowledge and other life sources of knowledge may be accepted only when they confirm the teachings of the self-perfect Vedas.

Vrajanatha: Are the Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam and other like scriptures not sources of true knowledge?

Babaji: The Bhagavad-gita has come from the mouth of the Supreme Lord Himself. It is also called the Gita Upanisad. It is counted as one of the Vedas. Because they are the teachings of Lord Gauranga, the ten verses of Dasa-mula are also one of the Vedas. The Srimad Bhagavatam is an anthology of the truths described in the Vedas. It is the crest jewel of all sources of knowledge. If they confirm the Vedas' teachings, the other smrti-sastras are also sources of true knowledge. The tantra-sastra are of three kinds: 1. those in the mode of goodness, 2. those in passion, and 3. those in ignorance. Among them, the pancaratras and other tantras in the mode of goodness expand the confidential portions of the Vedas' teachings. The word 'tantra' comes from the verbal root 'tan' (to expand). Therefore these tantras are also counted among the sources of true knowledge.

Vrajanatha: The Vedas consist of many different books. Among them which should be accepted and which not? Please tell me.

Babaji: In the course of time certain unscrupulous men interpolated many new chapters, mandalas, and mantras in the text of the Vedas. Therefore it is not that all the parts of the Vedas should be accepted. What in the course of time the acaryas in the bona fide disciplic succession have accepted, that should be considered the actual Veda. What they have rejected as interpolations should not be accepted.

Vrajanatha: What books of the Vedas have the acaryas of the bona fide disciplic successions accepted?

Babaji: The acaryas have accepted the twelve Upanisads named Isa, Kena, Katha, Prasna, Mundaka, Mandukya, Taittiriya, Aitareya, Chandogya, Brhad-aranyaka and Svetasvatara, as well as the Gopala-tapani Upanisad, the Nrsimha-tapani Upanisad and other like tapani Upanisads, as well as the brahmanas, mandalas, and other portions of the Rg, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Vedas. The acaryas have accepted all these books as sources of genuine knowledge.

Vrajanatha: You said that material logic has no power to understand spiritual things. What is the proof of that?

Babaji: In the Katha Upanisad (1..2.9) it is said:

"The spiritual truth cannot be understood by material logic."

In the Vedanta-sutra (2.1.11) it is said:

"Transcendental topics cannot be understood by argument or logic."*

In these and other statement of the Veda and Vedanta it is seen that material logic cannot be counted on as a source of true spiritual knowledge. In the Mahabharata (Bhisma-parva 5.22) it is said:

"Anything transcendental to material nature is called inconceivable, whereas arguments are all mundane. Since mundane arguments cannot touch transcendental subject matters, one should not try to understand transcendental subject matters through mundane arguments."*

In these words of the Mahabharata, the limits of material logic are seen. The conclusion of devotional service is also explained in these words written by Srila Rupa Gosvami (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.32):

"For persons who have a natural taste for understanding books like Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. Devotional service is easier than for those simply accustomed to mental speculation and argumentative processes."*

Material logic cannot bring a definitive, conclusive understanding. This is described in the following words (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.33):

"A person may become governed by certain convictions derived by his own arguments and decisions. Then another person, who may be a greater logician, will nullify these conclusions and establish another thesis. In this way the path of argument will never be safe or conclusive."*

If this is so, then what is the use of material logic and argument?

Vrajanatha: O saintly babaji, I accept that the self-perfect Vedas are the best of all sources of knowledge. If they try to contradict the Vedas, the logicians are merely speaking in vain. Now please recite the second verse of the Dasa-mula.

Babaji:

"Lord Hari is the only Supreme Truth. Brahma, Shiva, and Indra bow down before Him. The impersonal Brahman, which is completely untouched by matter, is the effulgence of His transcendental form. The all-pervading Supersoul is His expansion. He is the father of the material universes. He is the lover of Sri Radha. His form is splendid like a dark monsoon cloud. He is completely spiritual."

Vrajanatha: The Upanisads teach that the impersonal Brahman is the highest truth and it is beyond the touch of matter. Why, then, does Sriman Gaura-Hari affirm that it is the effulgence of Lord Hari's body? Please explain that to me.

Babaji: Lord Hari is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavan. The word 'bhagavan' means "He who possesses six opulences". In the Visnu Purana (6.5.47) it is written:

"Full wealth, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation - these are the six opulences of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."*

These six opulences are interrelated, like the limbs of a body. Which of them is the body? Which of them are the limbs? The body is the resting place of the limbs. The tree is the body, and the branches are the limbs. The whole form is the body, and the hands and feet are included among the limbs. The body is the resting place of the limbs. Of the Supreme Lord's opulences, His handsomeness is the body and the other opulences are the limbs. Wealth, strength, and fame are three limbs. The effulgence of fame consists of knowledge and renunciation. Therefore these two are the effulgence of one of the limbs. They are the opulences of an opulence. They are not direct opulences themselves. Knowledge of changeless spirit and renunciation of matter are the parts of the body of the impersonal Brahman. The impersonal Brahman is the effulgence emanating from the spiritual worlds. The unchanging inactive formless, qualityless Brahman is not the independent highest truth, rather it is the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead that is the independent highest truth. The light of a fire is not independent. It is the fire itself that is independent, and the light is merely one of the fire's qualities.

Vrajanatha: In many places in the Vedas, after the impersonal Brahman was described, the text declared, "Om Santih. Santih. Harih. Om." In the way the Vedas affirm the superiority of Lord Hari. Who is Lord Hari?

Babaji: Lord Hari is Radha and Krishna, who enjoy transcendental pastimes.

Vrajanatha: I will ask about this later. Now please tell me: What kind of expansion of the Supreme Lord (bhagavan) is the Supersoul (paramatma), the father of the material universes?

Babaji: Employing the two opulences of wealth and strength, the Supreme Lord created the material world of maya. After creating the world, the Lord expanded Himself as Visnu and entered it. When the Lord expands Himself, each expansion is perfect and complete. This is described in the following words of Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad (5.1):

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the complete whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the complete whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance."*

Therefore the Supersoul (paramatma), is Lord Visnu, who is perfect and complete, who has entered the material world, and who protects the material world. Lord Visnu thus manifests in three forms, as: 1. Karanodakasayi Visnu, Ksirodakasayi Visnu, and Garbhodakasayi Visnu. The Karana Ocean, which is also known as the Viraja River,, lies on the boundary that separates the spiritual and material worlds. To that place Lord Maha-Visnu goes and reclines on the Karana Ocean. Thus He is Karanodakasayi Visnu. Glancing at her from far away, the Lord employs Maya-devi to create the material world. The Lord Himself describes this in these words of Bhagavad-gita (9.10):

"The material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings."*

In the Vedas it is said (Aitareya Upanisad 1.1.):

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead glanced over the material creation."*

It is also said (Aitareya Upanisad 1.1):

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead created this entire material world."*

The Supreme Lord, whose glance is so powerful, expands Himself as Garbhodakasayi Visnu and enters the material world. The particles of light that constitute Lord Maha-Visnu's glance are the conditioned spirit souls. Into the heart of each conditioned soul, the Lord enters in a form the size of a thumb. That form is called Ksirodakasayi Visnu or Hiranyagarbha. Thus the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual spirit soul both reside in the heart. This is described in the following words of Svetasvatara Upanisad (4.6):

"The individual spirit soul and the Supersoul, Supreme Personality of godhead, are like two friendly birds sitting on the same tree."*

In this way the Sruti-sastra explains that the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual spirit soul are like two birds. The bird that is the Supreme Personality of Godhead gives the fruits of karma, and the bird that is the individual spirit soul tries to enjoy the material world. In Bhagavad-gita (10.41-42), the Supreme Lord declares:

"Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring from but a spark of My splendour.*

"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire creation."*

Therefore the Supersoul (paramatma), who creates, enters, protects and controls the material world, is an expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead (bhagavan).

Vrajanatha: I accept that the impersonal Brahman is the effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead's body and that the Supersoul is His expansion. Now please tell me: What is the proof that Lord Krishna is the original form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead?

Babaji: The Supreme Personality of Godhead has all opulence and sweetness eternally. When His opulence is manifested, He is Lord Narayana, the master of the spiritual world and the origin of Lord Maha-Visnu. Thus when His pastimes of opulence are manifest He is Lord Narayana, and when His pastimes of sweetness are manifest, He is Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna possesses the highest limit of sweetness. The effulgence of His sweetness is so great that it eclipses all opulence that exist anywhere. Therefore the conclusion is that Lord Narayana and Lord Krishna are not different. However, in the spiritual world the greatest sweetness of transcendental mellows is present in Lord Krishna. He is the highest resting place of all transcendental mellows. This is explained in the following words of the Rg Veda (1.22.164.31):

"I have seen a gopa (cowherd boy) dressed in colourful garments and accompanied by many beautiful girls as He wanders the pathways in the spiritual world. That same gopa again and again enters the material worlds and stays in the hearts of the living beings."

In the Chandogya Upanisad (8.13.1) it is said:

"To attain Sri Radha I surrender to Lord Krishna. To attain Lord Krishna I surrender to Sri Radha."

These verses describe the liberated souls and their relationship with Lord Krishna. In Srimad Bhagavatam (1.3.28) it is said:

"All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Sri Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead."*

In the Bhagavad-gita (7.7) Lord Krishna Himself declares:

"O conqueror of wealth (Arjuna), there is no truth superior to Me."*

In the Gopala-tapani Upanisad (1.20) it is said:

"Lord Krishna is the worshipable, all-pervading supreme controller, and although He is one, He manifests in many forms."

Vrajanatha: Lord Krishna has an average-sized form. How can He be present everywhere? If we accept that Lord Krishna has a form, we must also accept that His form can only stay in one place at time. Now He must fall under the control of the material modes. No longer can He be supremely independent. How call all these defects be removed from Lord Krishna?

Babaji: Baba, you are a conditioned soul trapped in the material world of maya. That is why you have all these doubts. As long as it is bound by the ropes of maya, your intelligence will never be able to touch the transcendental reality. When it tries to understand the pure spiritual reality, it will assume that spirit has qualities and forms just like those of matter. When it does this, the intelligence becomes worried that it has followed the wrong path. Then the intelligence begins to imagine that the Supreme Spirit has no form and no qualities. In this way the intelligence becomes cheated and cannot understand the truth about the Supreme Spirit. In truth the defects you think might affect the ordinary sized form of Lord Krishna do not have any bearing on His true spiritual form. The idea that the Supreme Spirit is "formless", "unchanging", and "inactive" are ideas obtained by looking for the exact opposites of what appears in the material world. These are also qualities of a certain kind. Qualities of another kind are Lord Krishna's handsome form, His face blossoming with happiness, His lotus eyes, His lotus feet, which give peacefulness to the devotees, and all His graceful limbs perfect for enjoying transcendental pastimes. This pure spiritual form of Lord Krishna is one feature of the Lord. When these two features, the personal and impersonal, are considered, it is seen that the average-sized form of Lord Krishna is the most handsome and pleasing. This is described in the following words of Sri Narada-pancaratra:

"Lord Krishna is supremely independent. His form and qualities are free of any possible flaw. His body is not like the bodies made of matter. His hands, feet, face, belly, and all the other parts of His body are all made of transcendental bliss and nothing else. Lord Krishna is not different from His body. He does not reside in a material body different from Himself, as the conditioned souls in the material world do. He and His body are one."

Lord Krishna's form is eternal and full of knowledge and bliss. His qualities are not material. Nothing about Him is material in even the slightest degree. He is not limited by material time and space. His form is fully present in every place for all time. He is one. His form has all knowledge. The material world is so large it cannot be measured by the conditioned souls. It is natural that a form of average size could never be present everywhere in the material world. However, in the spiritual world all qualities have limitless power. Therefore the average-sized form of Lord Krishna can be present everywhere. That is actually one of its natural qualities. In the material world an average-sized form cannot be all-pervading. However, the supremely handsome spiritual form of Lord Krishna is certainly all-pervading. The extraordinary qualities of that form are very different from the qualities of material forms. That spiritual form is very glorious. Can anyone be more glorious than the all-pervading Supreme Spirit? In the material world everything is limited by time and space. What is the glory of a form that is free from the limits of time and present everywhere? Lord Krishna's transcendental abode of Vraja is described in the Chandogya Upanisad, which calls it "Brahma-pura". That abode is perfectly spiritual. It has all spiritual wonders. Its activities are all spiritual. Its places are spiritual. Its land and water are spiritual. Its rivers and trees are spiritual. Its sky is spiritual. Its sun, moon, and stars are all spiritual. They have not the slightest drop of any material flaw. Rather they filled with spiritual bliss. O baba, the Nabadwip-Mayapura where you are sitting now is that same spiritual world. However, because you are trapped in Maya's net you cannot reach out and touch it. When you attain the mercy of a great saintly person you will see that everything in this place is spiritual. Then you will be living in the spiritual world of Vraja. When did you get the idea that the average-sized form of Lord Krishna could have any flaws? The glory of Lord Krishna's average-sized spiritual form is far beyond what your material intelligence can understand. This has happened because in the past you committed many impious deeds.

Vrajanatha: O saintly babaji, Sri Sri Radha-Krishna's forms, beauty, features, pastimes, companions, homes, forest-groves, and all else of Them are purely spiritual. A wise man will not doubt that. However, in what times and places do They manifest Their forms, abodes, and pastimes?

Babaji: Sri Krishna is the master of all potencies. He can make any possible thing possible. There is nothing surprising in this. He is playful and enjoys transcendental pastimes. Whatever He wishes is at once accomplished. He has all powers. If He wishes, He can bring His transcendental form and abode to the material world. There is no doubt of that.

Vrajanatha: The doubt is this. By His own will Lord Krishna appears in the material world. However, the people who see Him tend to think that His "transcendental abode" is a material place like other material places, His "transcendental form" is a material form like the forms of ordinary human beings, and His "transcendental pastimes in Vraja" are ordinary material activities. Why do they see like that? If it is true that Lord Krishna has mercifully appeared within the material world, why do not all people see that His form is spiritual?

Babaji: One of Lord Krishna's limitless transcendental qualities is His mercy to His devotees. Employing His hladini shakti, He gives His devotees the power to see that everything about Him is spiritual. To His devotees He reveals everything about His transcendental pastimes. However, the non-devotees' eyes, ears and other senses, which are contaminated by many offenses, cannot see any difference between the pastimes of the Lord and ordinary historical events of human existence.

Vrajanatha: Did not Sri Krishna descend to this material world to show mercy to the people in general?

Babaji: His descent to this world brings all auspiciousness. When He descends to this world and manifests His transcendental pastimes, the devotees can see that His form and pastimes are purely spiritual. The non-devotees surely see them as material. Still, merely by seeing them, the non-devotees gain great spiritual merit. When this spiritual merit accumulates and becomes very great they become able to have faith in pure devotional service. Therefore the Lord's descent to this world brings a great benefit to the conditioned souls.

Vrajanatha: Why are Lord Krishna's pastimes not clearly described in every page of the Vedas?

Babaji: On every page the Vedas again and again sing the glories of Lord Krishna's pastimes. In some places they are described directly and in other places they are only hinted at. When the words of the texts directly refer to Lord Krishna, the description is direct. An example of that is the following words of the Chandogya Upanisad:

"To attain Sri Radha I take shelter of Lord Krishna. To attain Lord Krishna I take shelter of Sri Radha."

In these words and the words that follow it in the Chandogya Upanisad, the liberated souls and their service to Lord Krishna in the different rasas is clearly described. When the words only hint at the description of Lord Krishna, the description is indirect. In the conversations of Yajnavalkya, Gargi and Maitreyi (in the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad), the description of Lord Krishna is at first indirect, and then at the end direct. In some places the Vedas have described Lord Krishna's eternal pastimes directly, and in other places, chanting the glories of the impersonal Brahman and the Supersoul, the Vedas have described Lord Krishna only indirectly. In truth, the Vedas have taken a vow to chant the glories of Lord Krishna.

Vrajanatha: O saintly babaji, Lord Krishna is the Supreme Truth. Of this there is no doubt. However, what is the status of Brahma, Shiva, Indra, Surya, Ganesa, and the other demigods worshipped in this world? Please tell me. Many brahmanas say that Shiva is the Supreme Truth and no one is higher than Him. I was born in the family of such a brahmana, and I have heard and repeated this idea since childhood. What is the truth of this? Please tell me.

Babaji: Now I will describe to you the relative merits of the ordinary living entities, the demigods and demigoddesses worshipped in this world, and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Please listen. I will now repeat to you a list of some of Lord Krishna's transcendental qualities. They are described in these words of a great philosopher (Srila Rupa Gosvami's Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu:

"Krishna, the supreme hero, has the most beautiful transcendental body. This body possesses all good features. It is radiant and very pleasing to the eyes. His body is powerful, strong and youthful.*

"Krishna is the linguist of all wonderful languages. He is a truthful and very pleasing speaker. He is expert in speaking and He is very wise, learned, scholar and a genius.*

"Krishna is very expert in artistic enjoyment. He is highly cunning, expert, grateful and firmly determined in His vows. He knows how to deal according to time, person and country, and He sees through the scriptures and authoritative books. He is very clean and self-controlled.*

"Lord Krishna is steady, His senses are controlled, and He is forgiving, grave, and calm. He is also equal to all. Moreover, He is magnanimous, religious, chivalrous, and kind. He is always respectful to respectable people.*

"Krishna is very simple and liberal, He is humble and bashful and He is the protector of the surrendered soul. He is very happy, and He is always the well-wisher of His devotee. He is auspicious and He is submissive to love.*

"Krishna is very influential and famous, and He is the object of attachment for everyone. He is the shelter of the good and the virtuous. He is attractive to the minds of women, and He is worshipped by everyone. He is very, very rich.*

"Krishna is the Supreme, and He is always glorified as the Supreme Lord and controller. Thus all the previously mentioned transcendental qualities are in Him. The fifty qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead above mentioned are as deep as the ocean. In other words, they are difficult to comprehend.*

"These qualities are sometimes very minutely exhibited in living beings, but they are fully manifest in the Supreme Personality of Godhead.*

"Apart from these fifty qualities, there are five other qualities found in the Supreme Personality of Godhead that are partially present in demigods like Shiva.*

"These qualities are: 1. the Lord is always situated in His original position, 2. He is omniscient, 3. He is always fresh and youthful, 4. He is the concentrated form of eternity, knowledge and bliss, and 5. He is the possessor of all mystic perfection. These are another five qualities, which exist in the Vaikuntha planets in Narayana, the Lord of Laksmi. These qualities are present in Krishna, but are not present in demigods like Lord Shiva or in other living entities. These are: 1. inconceivable supreme power, 2. generating innumerable universes from the body, 3. being the original source of all incarnations, 4. bestowing salvation upon enemies killed and 5. the ability to attract exalted persons who are satisfied in themselves. Although these qualities are present in Narayana, the dominating Deity of the Vaikuntha planets, they are even more wonderfully present in Krishna.*

"Apart from these sixty transcendental qualities, Krishna has an additional four qualities, which are not manifest even in the personality of Narayana. These are: 1. Krishna is like an ocean filled with eaves of pastimes that evoke wonder within everyone in the three worlds. 2. In His activities of conjugal love, He is always surrounded by His dear devotees who possess unequalled love for Him. 3. He attracts the minds of all three worlds by the melodious vibration of His flute. 4. His personal beauty and opulence are beyond compare. No one is equal to Him, and no one is greater than Him. Thus the Supreme Personality of Godhead astonishes all living entities, both moving and non moving, within the three worlds. He is so beautiful that He is called Krishna.*

"Above Narayana, Krishna has four specific transcendental qualities - His wonderful pastimes, an abundance of wonderful associates who are very dear to Him (like the gopis), His wonderful beauty and the wonderful vibration of His flute. Lord Krishna is more exalted than ordinary living beings and demigods like Lord Shiva. He is even more exalted than His own personal expansion Narayana."*

These sixty-four opulences are fully, eternally and splendidly manifest in Lord Krishna, whose pure spiritual form is eternal and full of knowledge and bliss. The last four opulences are present only in the form of Lord Krishna. They are not present in even the Lord's pastime incarnations. Now that these four qualities are excluded, the remaining sixty qualities are fully and splendidly manifest in Lord Narayana, who is the master of the spiritual sky, and whose form is perfectly spiritual. When the next five opulences are excluded, the remaining fifty-five opulences are present in Lord Shiva and other exalted demigods. Drops of the remaining fifty opulences may be seen in the individual spirit souls. Shiva, Brahma, Surya, Ganesa, and Indra are partial expansions of the Lord. Given jurisdiction to rule over certain affairs of the Lord's opulences. Still, they are individual souls, servants of the Supreme Lord. By their mercy many people attained pure devotional service. They are rulers over the conditioned souls, and that is why they are objects of worship in the material world. The worship of them gradually leads to worship of the Supreme Lord. If they give to certain souls the gift of pure devotional service to Lord Krishna, those souls consider them spiritual masters and worship them eternally. Lord Shiva, who is filled with devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is considered non-different from the Supreme Lord Himself. That is why people addicted to the ideas of impersonalism take shelter of Him and consider Him the highest form of the Supreme.